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but its action that we want. And for 400 years now we've sat around tables and talked and nothing has been done. So whatever action has been requested should have been taken without discussion and negotiation. We're going to have to sit down with somebody and tell them

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what we want. But when we do this, we want them to do something about it. They gave us a lot of liberty by saying you go back to your people and determine what you want are who Your representative are going to be. Okay. They've given us

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a liberty. We're gonna go back. They said that our demands will be met when we come back and present these. We want to met with reference to the criteria we established to label cases as fraudulent or not meeting the standards. We required that there be clear

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and convincing evidence that there was a knowing and intentional act or a mission done or not done by a recipient in order to meet that standard. So there wasn't any question as to the ignorance of the recipient contributing to the fraud, the ignorance of the recipient.

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As to the results of his action uh, in perpetrating a welfare fraud or his failure to report income or a man in the house that possibly could well have contributed to the commission of the fraud. In other words, many of them were unaware of the consequences

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of possible jail terms, uh, and finds, uh, etcetera and particularly the investigation prosecution.