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mhm drawing is the foundation of art. To draw does not mean simply to reproduce contours. Drawing does not consist merely of lines. Drawing is also expression. Here you see the hand of George Licked, the famous cartoonist and creator of the Grin and Barrett series that you

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see daily in the newspapers. George Lichty is a special kind of draftsman who, through his drawings, expresses what he feels is of interest to everyone today. In the same way William Hogarth, the 18th century English artist, commented on his times in Beer Street, Hogarth comments on

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the social aspects of beer drinking in his day in the 20th century. Through his newspaper cartoons, George Lichty makes the same kind of penetrating observations on the social conditions of our times. We thought you'd probably like to meet George Lichty, so we decided to visit him.

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George, excuse me for interrupting. I'm your brother and your host on Discovery. I wanted to pay you a call and see how a cartoonist work. Well, Susan the apple Joe. I'm just getting my lunch on the fly today. You don't seem to be working or drawing.

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What are you doing? Careful The dust. There But what are you doing? Right? Knowledge or well, I'm just sort of thinking hatching. Uhh. Sort of the pencil sharpening stage trying to get catch momentum, thinking about cartoons. I'm trying to arrange the week's work. If you sit

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and think about cartoons a lot, are you thinking about chiefly about the gag or the joke? That's the basis of the cartoon. Well, yes, mainly. So I'm I know what I'm gonna do, and I try to visualize it. That is the way I hope it won't

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turn out. And also, I like to arrange the the various cartoons for a variety. You know, one day, a political one day, a Russian one day human interest. I said that sort of thing. Where do the where did the gags come from? Well, altogether. I mean,

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in our business, the deadlines don't allow us much time. And so we have to rely on gag men. Uh huh. We have We have gag writers. Really? Another person? Yes, another man. And I have this one man I've been working with for 12 years, and we

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sort of mission ideas, and we can bad idea back and forth and finally come up with something. Well, if you started with the See you started with a gag on this cartoon. George, where did you go from there? The the gag on this one is in

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order to avoid confusion, I've suggested that the administration and myself run the government on alternate days. Where did you go from there, then? In developing this cartoon? Well, tramps have. I'd better start the other way around and show you how I arrived at this cartoon at

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this gang. I, uh, Cliff tonight. Amount of the paper. It was at the time McCarthy was Senator McCarthy was uhh overlapping State Department functions. And I thought, there be a nice situation there, Carry it to a silly conclusion. As a result, I sent the clip and

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my notations on it down to the gag man. He's in Los Angeles. Mhm. And he came back with this gag question. Well, what? Actually, how does he send in these gags and what form you get them from? From him? I have I have some of them

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right here. Uh huh. I mean, it's all utter confusion, but I think I can find something. These are actually the sheets he sends in with captions. Yes. Yes, they are. Now, here's one. A notation I'd sent down a cliff on this, uh, Russian police chief Barrier

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supposedly being in hiding in Spain. And I thought there there must be something in that. So he came back with a gag, which I didn't care very much about, but I'll just leave it in the ice box, you know, you received to have. Although the things

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seem quite a different material that particular Gaga's, I think dissipated by this time. George, you were working on a cartoon when I interrupted. You hear? How did you start on that one? Well, this particular one, Incidentally, I'm pretty much on deadline. You don't mind if I

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go? Please go right ahead. That's what we'd like to see. The the caption for this one is Yeah, but the senator has just come into the airport. He's disembarking from the plane and he's talking to reporters. Then he's saying after a short swing around the country,

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I find the paramount issue before the nation today is how much is the down payment? Well, the I mean, we started out on the supposition that we're still having a little boom and prosperity. Everybody's buying cars or new high this and that. Sure. Very topical. Yeah.

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So and the senators are weighing a junket. So we I sent an automation down to him and asked him to come up with something. I had a small idea myself. Mhm. And, uh, excuse me, George. Was this one of the gags that your gag man sent

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in was a lion or Yes, well, it's sort of a combination of our referee. Yeah. So this is one of the six I am sending in today. And go ahead. I will have to work and I don't mind. You ask me any questions. There's one thing

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that always strikes me about the cartoons of yours. I see in the the daily papers charge that you know, all of the people, to some extent look alike like a senator that you're drawing there who's become your trademark, I suppose. But the the reporter that's interviewing

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him has drawn in much the same way. And yet it seems to me that all of your people have a real character of their own. How do you account for the fact that they're all they're all individuals and yet they're drawn so quickly and in a

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few lines as well. I don't know, Joe. I mean, as far as I can see, they don't have much character. They all have bald noses, and they all have flat feet. Yeah, but I imagine it's the use of symbols that identify, especially in these cartoons that

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will identify the characters here on the viewer's mind. Yes, more or less. Now, the senator here, um, the prototype is one of those old line senators. Remember the old windbags? And they all wore flowered vests. Yes, I can see you're putting in the embroidery. Yeah, and

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they all have these medium length frog coats. And they all wore these 10 gallon black hats plus the string tie which we never forget. And the back wing collar. And the reporter always has a a press card in his hat. Oh, yes, I see. So that's

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what you do is is simply to suggest, in the most economical way, by such things as the flowered vest and the press card in the hat. Ah, what the what the viewer actually is seeing, or at least what I would like them to see. Yeah, I

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remember that other cartoon about Senator? Start running the government for a day or two, which the the Capitol Dome appears. You immediately get the setting of the cartoon at once. In that I believe there are a couple of reporters with press cards in their hats. The

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senators flowered vest and so on to Well, that's that's one of the first things we learn is that we have to identify. There has to be some sort of identification in the cartoon. George, you've become probably most famous for Senator Snort. But there's also the wife

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of Fig Newton, and she looks a little bit like Senator Snort, perhaps. As you say, they both have bold noses and so on. But what makes what makes the difference? Well, there isn't. There isn't much difference. The If I were to show you on the board

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here, you take a round circle. I mean, the wife, senator and his wife both have the same features. They both have large noses, double chins. And I guess about the only difference is a little here and Mrs Snort, you know, in other words, you pile up

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at the top of her head. I know That's right. Mhm two. Mhm. I Uhh! Did you say you had six cartoons to get in today, George? Yes, I do. And this is gonna be the last one, I hope, another way. The one you're working on right

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here. I'm always working on a close deadline, and they have to be back east tomorrow morning. So I am out to catch a plane with these. As soon as I finish you work bust under pressure? Well, I don't know that worked best. It's the only way

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I know How. How many do you have to do a week charge? Well, I do about 13 a week, and that's not counting the spoiled ones. And I hope I don't spoil one here. You can't afford to spoil in here and still make the play this

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afternoon. Well, not much, Joe. Okay, Detail. I don't care much about So the figures here, I just sort of block in roughly in the background just to get a little indication. This, I doubt has any relation or real plane. But at least I

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hope it looks like one. The polygon. It's a sort of a symbol, too. Described as something that's the idea Report. It also has a pad. Always scratch bar and a bus ticket in his hat and a cigarette. Come on side of his face.

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Yeah. George, I noticed a lot of your cartoons. You have little. There will be signs on the wall. Snort is described as the fearless full of progress. Where do you get those ideas? Well, those, uh well, when I'm just leaning back there, you know, I'm trying

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to figure out something to fill up that wall space. Something funny in relation to the gang. Chiefly come from you rather than the gag man. I'm just trying to twist an old joke. Incidentally, speaking of old jokes, I have a book here. Yeah, mhm. It's almost

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a collector's item. It's an old Joe Miller joke book. Robinson. You mean there actually was a journalist joke book? If there's the publication date him, you're in a D. C. C c. It all figures out 17. 39. You really could read the Austin, George. This is

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you mean, though, that you actually can go to Joe Miller? No, no, I bag. You can't use any of Joe Miller stuff, but, I mean, I'm looking through it. I discovered that there are no new one because I found the bones of a lot of old

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burlesque gags here. Is that right? But not that I can use them, but there they are. Yeah. What you say is very interesting, though, George, you really feel that essentially, there are no new gags? No, no, no, no. All of us. We always got a new

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angle or, Well, not an old one. And we never seem to be able to wring it dry. Is that right? That's very interesting, George. I know you want to make this deadline here while you're working. I think perhaps we should take the idea that George is

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expressed here that there really are no new gags or ideas for cartoons. And in terms of that idea, look at and discuss some examples of the graphic arts of other times. We'll ask Irene Lug Orio, curator of the Achenbach Foundation at the California Palace of the

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Legion of Honour, to discuss the history of cartooning. Mm. Irene, do you agree that there are essentially no new gags for cartoons? I wouldn't say that exactly. But many of the gags and cartoons of today are based upon legends of the past. When one works with

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100 prints, as I do every day, you'll find this to be particularly evident. Would you like to see some examples of the old cartoons that we have in the collection? I'd like to Very much fine. Yeah, As a matter of fact, I'd like to ask you

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Well, what would be the earliest example you could show of? Of social comment by a graphic artist that would relate to cartooning well in the Achenbach Foundation. Our earliest example is this particular print done after After a drawing by Pieter Bruegel in the mid 15 hundreds.

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It is actually social commentary and has as its title The Big Fish Eat the Little fish. And just to make sure that you understand that this deals with oppression of the poor, the artist has indicated in the upper right hand corner of the print the title

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in three different languages, uh, first in Latin than in French and finally in Dutch. No question, I should say not. You'll find that the whole picture is designed has as its basis the absorption of one fish by another. For example, here in the lower right hand

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corner, you'll find a little fish being absorbed by a medium sized fish, which in turn is being absorbed by a still greater one and then occupying the center of the entire format. You'll find a tremendous size fish, almost a whale like proportions, which has absorbed a

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great accumulation of fish and turn. Do you think the the message of this drawing on his the rich get richer and the poor get poorer? And apparently the people in the 15 hundreds were just as concerned about that as they are today, And this was done

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in the 16th century. That's right, in the middle of the 16th century 15th. What have you done from the 17th century? Well, it's very curious. In the 17th century, apparently, people were very, very serious. At least they took themselves quite seriously to the extent that we

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find very little of this sort of thing occurring. But when you get into the 18th century, particularly in England, you find a very important figure. William Hogarth by name. Beer Street. Yes, Hogarth used the cartoon as a means of pointing up moral issues. For example, this

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particular print comes from a series of 21 is titled Beer Street, which happens to be this particular one and the other entitled Gin Lane. Now Beer Street has to do with the benefits of beer drinking in England, whereas Gin Lane treats the other aspects of the

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problem. Apparently he preferred beer to gin, apparently. Oh, in this particular instance, the beer apparently agrees also with the English Constitution, particularly when you look at these two gentlemen of immense proportions in the lower right hand corner of the print, they are representing the butcher and

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the blacksmith, enjoying a cup or a stein of beer before going back to their individual labour's very, very well fed burger. Oh, indeed, as a matter of fact, there proportions are somewhat similar to the characters. Speaking of like Yes, like the senator here definitely has a

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prototype, I think, indeed, the That's the blacksmith, isn't it? Now, when one looks at the right hand corner of the print, you see the representation of a pawnshop here. The fact that the three round Globes, which are symbolical of the pawnshop, are falling from the side

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of the building and that the entire structure has a an appearance of decay might indicate that in England, if you stick to beer, the pawnshop can make no business. Tell me, who is this? Who is this certain, rather disreputable looking guy here on the ladder? Now

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that is a very curious character, because Hogarth takes time out in the midst of all this bucolic atmosphere to indicate that the plight of an artist is a sad one. You know, in this particular period around 17 50 if you were not a portrait painter or

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a historical painter, it was indeed a difficult problem because there was a great demand for portraits and little demand for anything else. Therefore, if you had ideas other than the current ones, you were reduced to sign painting. If you happen to be an artist, this is

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very interesting, because we'll find the position of the artist or the misunderstood artist reiterated again in the 19th century. By the way, have you anything of of Rawlinson? Wasn't he a contemporary? Oh yes, Rawlinson occurred in the late 17 hundreds, and he was quite different as

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to approach when one compares him to Hogarth. Rawlinson was not particularly concerned with delivering a moral message of any kind. He just liked to present the social aspects of living. For example, we find here a very early manifestation of the traditional doctor joke. Here in the

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right hand corner, we find an Englishman suffering from the traditional English ailment of gout. Uh, he is attended by three doctors who apparently are holding a great consultation over his ailment. While they are huddled here in a corner discussing the problems and possible remedies, the patient

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is being administered to buy a very handsome looking young nurse. Rawlinson went on to caption this particular watercolor drawing by stating the doctors are puzzled and debate, but the patient gets well in the hands of Kate. Uh, incidentally, when one discusses Rawlinson and thinks of the

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reappearance of old gags, Uh, this particular print of the fishermen is very, very interesting. Now, this is back in the late 17 hundreds, and here we find the traditional gag, or what is the standard gag here in our present century? That is the fishermen who puts

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his line into the water and draws an old shoe that could be in one of the comic strips today, Definitely, we find that occurs over and over and over again just to review you. Say, this is seven. This is 17th century late. So this is the

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late 17 hundreds, late 18th century century. Yes, we go into the early. This is the early 19. That's right, early 19th century. Here we find two important figures. One is Give Arnie and the other is domain. Now, Barney is not as well known as Dona. But

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his approach illustrates the use of the gag line attached to the drawing proper, which we find characteristic of licked his work today, for example, here we have again the traditional artist, the one who is the misunderstood member of society. Here he is standing before his easel

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with his great painting, even to having the oh paraphernalia of the artists, the beret and the palette. And so on. Next to him is this lady who looks very, very sympathetic and the proves are apparently admiring of his work. The artist turns to her and says,

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Do you like works in oil? Her reply is, Oh, no, sir. In oil, I prefer potatoes completely misunderstood. He's a silver better fed looking artist than the and the gentleman in the Hogan drawing Yes, to a certain extent, Yes, Dona is a very, very important figure

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of the middle 19 hundreds. Uh, actually, he had aspirations towards very serious painting. But in order to support himself and make some sort of subsistence, he had to resort to cartooning. Uh, he started out as a political cartoonist. But you remember your history and recall that

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there was the suppression of the press at that time. So as a consequence, he resorted to illustrating purely social, uh, aspects of life. For example, he takes in this particular instance the lawyer remember Rawlinson handled the doctor. Domeier takes on the lawyer as his subject. Here

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we have the lawyer consulting the young lady, whom he is apparently defending, incidentally, noticed that she is quite young, very winsome and innocent in appearance. Uh, he being a man who had knows all the angles, leans over to her confidently and says, You are young, you

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are pretty. And it will be easy to convince the jury that your husband is entirely at false. That's a very contemporary sort of gag. That's right. This was done in about 100 years ago. Approximately that time. Yeah, it's a very It's a sort of a contemporary

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looking dry. It certainly is. As a matter of fact, Domi anticipated much of the approach that was used by the Impressionists of approximately 18 74. Now, I mentioned that Domi A had to, uh, leave political cartooning and resort to just social caricature. Uh, in the United

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States, we find that apparently the suppression of the press did not take place. Uh, for example, uh, the work of Thomas Nast was based purely upon political incidents. For example, here we have a comment on the Tweed Ring and Tammany Hall, where there's tremendous sum of

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money, was lifted from the city of New York by a certain group of citizens. This is purely political, purely political. Uh, that is titled Alliance. But I unsure of the field of gold. That's right. Have you anything by 1/19 century by a by a modern artist.

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An important Oh, yes, a very important man. That we all know very well is Pablo Picasso. Picasso has never resorted to making the funny picture as such, but he has used the format of the comic strip as a means of putting over a very, very serious

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comment upon war and destruction. This particular group is titled Dreams and Lives of Picasso of Franco in Spain at about the time of at the time of the Spanish Civil War. You'll notice that in the first two frames he has the horse and the woman symbolizing

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death and destruction. You don't happen to have one of these Sunday cartoon strips here. I certainly have. I thought it was quite interesting to draw the parallel. You see well, Picasso uses precisely the same format, the only difference being a simple plea that Lichty has something

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funny to tell. Picasso had something message. Yes, since we're looking at one of Mr Lichty is completed Sunday cartoons, I think it would be interesting to see how he's coming along on his battle with the deadline here. Before we turn back to George Lichty and his

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struggle with the clock, I should mention that this is one of a series of programs on the graphic arts. Discovery is designed by the San Francisco Museum of Art and Station K. P. I X. To keep you better informed on contemporary art activity, we hope you'll

00:25:18.850 - 00:25:36.260

find many discoveries in this program in the field of fine art before you do so, there's one discovery we'd like to have you make right away. The San Francisco Museum of Art, The San Francisco Museum of Art is devoted exclusively to contemporary art and is located

00:25:36.260 - 00:25:54.310

in the heart of San Francisco and its civic center, with a library here and the auditorium here, the square with its fountain and pigeons. The City Hall with its dome cross Van Ness Avenue, is the opera house beside it, the garden with plane trees where cars

00:25:54.310 - 00:26:10.570

move on concert evening. On the other side of the garden is its companion building, the War Memorial, built in part by funds donated by the San Francisco Art Association in order that San Fran, San Francisco might have a museum of contemporary art. Here is a view

00:26:10.570 - 00:26:31.110

of the building as you pass it on Van Ness Avenue. Beneath the skylights on the fourth floor, the San Francisco Museum of Art carries on its activities. Lectures, film shines, classes, concerts, committing meetings and special entertainment exhibitions change often and ranging subject covering all aspects of

00:26:31.110 - 00:26:51.330

contemporary art, including painting, sculpture, architecture, decorative arts and graphic arts like cartooning. The San Francisco Museum of Art is not supported by the city. It is supported by its members, each of whom pays $10 or more a year feeling that without this museum, San Francisco would

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be less of a city. In return, the members receive special privileges not offered to the public. Always. There's room in the membership for those new persons who discovered the museum and always welcome to everyone to visit its galleries. Yeah. How you doing on the time, George?

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Gee, I'm an arrest, Joe. I gotta go. You gotta finish, huh? I gotta stick it in here and get out the airport. You got to take the lead up to the plate and mail it. Now you can't talk to you anymore. Well, I hope you make

00:27:22.530 - 00:27:39.170

the play, George. It will be looking for that one in the newspapers that if George Lichty succeeds in making the plane today, you'll be seeing the cartoon that he just finished here in the studio in next week's newspapers. Discover this is the first performance of discovery

00:27:39.680 - 00:27:55.180

and we sincerely hope you're enjoying it. I should like, at the moment to discuss with you some of the further programs that we have planned. Brought to you by the San Francisco Museum and Station kpi X discovery on future programs will feature some of the leading

00:27:55.180 - 00:28:15.090

personalities in the field of harm. Among them will be Frank Lloyd Wright, America's leading creative architect. Ansel Adams, one of America's leading photographers. Charles Eames, who designed the toy. And the famous Eames chair George Stevens, who designed who directed the recent movie Shane and the earlier

00:28:15.090 - 00:28:34.420

Duel in the Sun. We'll have Jorge Luis and his Dixieland New Orleans band so you can see we have a great many surprises features in store for you, and we hope you'll be listening in every Sunday afternoon at 3:30 p.m. Next week's guests on Discovery will

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be Jean Varda, colorful artists and maker of collage, and Barnaby Conrad, San Francisco painter and author of the recent best selling novel Matador. Conrad and Varda both have extremely different styles of painting, and it will be interesting to see what results they obtained and working from

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the same model. Alfred Frankenstein, the local art critic, will be here to discuss their results. This is Joe Brotherton, your host on Discovery, looking forward to seeing you again next week