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useful in your own specialty. Author? Lecturer? Yeah. Well known throughout the world as a semantic assist. Your background was not an administration. Why did you take this assignment on? I got into some semantics. You understand? During the rise of Hitler, there you saw a gang of

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real hoodlums using a vicious and lying propaganda and techniques of intimidation and forests to rise to power. The more I studied this, the more necessary I found it to be that human beings in organized societies to try to solve problems by debate, discussion, reason, logic brought

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in by bullying tactics, dictatorship force and so on. I also saw that when people are determined to impose a kind of regime, Yeah, of a kind that you cannot itself suppress freedom of speech and freedom of action and thought. You have to counter gangsterism and violence

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by counter violence. And this, ultimately is the justification of the American participation in the Second World War. You're saying that this has to be done, that violence must be countered by counter violence. There's no other way of stopping it. Is that house? Would you have stopped

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Hitler today? What we have on campus disorders is not only violence and civil disobedience and civil disobedience in Gandhi's case notices. Always peaceful, you'd only have not only civil disobedience plus violence, plus the immediate demand for amnesty for everybody as soon as the, uh as soon

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as they are arrested. No, you know, this really bothers me. There's a sort of moral dignity about disobeying an unjust law and going proudly jail. Serve your time. Indicate what you think of the law. Jordan Bias has done that recently with great dignity. One of the

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things I find really shocking is the fact that the A f L C i. O San Francisco Neighbor Council gave a strike sanctions to a group of professors organized into that left local. But they are the professors at our cards who have given every encouragement to

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all the revolutionaries to all the anti intellectuals to all the confrontation people to all those who disrupt the life of the campus. Whenever those those young men and women have gotten into trouble is this particular cluster of professors insisted on amnesty for it, and that has

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thrown roadblocks in the way of any attempt to discipline, punish, expel or suspend these students Dr Hayakawa, I'd like to get back to you personally a little bit and off This problem that's bothered both of us for six or seven weeks. Now it's said that you

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enjoy being in the limelight even under difficult circumstances such as these. Mhm. Mm. Is that an unfair statement? Well, I don't know. It seems to be kind of universal who doesn't like attention, you know, but under difficult circumstances, I don't wilt. There's a curious, stubborn streak

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in me, I guess that makes me mobilize my resources, emotional and intellectual resources under conditions of stress. So that in a way, I find a curious way that I enjoy being summoned up to the full extent of my capacities. Do you think we have treated you

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fairly? We have the media. Some of the media treated me extremely fairly. It seems to me others are so sympathetic to the revolutionaries, I think. Think of individual columnists and and certain writers for The Chronicle, for example, might just as well be writing for the Berkeley

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barb. And this is also true of of KQED. There's an awful lot of Berkeley barb type people. They're not a not a shadow that pretends to objective journalism but sending shafts and needles and all the time as part of their quote journalism unquote. A few days

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ago, you were asking a press conference about Governor Reagan's comment at San Francisco State would be kept open at the point of a bayonet if necessary. And you were asked if you agreed with that statement. You never said exactly whether you do agree with it or

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not. Well, in a way, I'd rather Mr Reagan took responsibility for his own comments. But on the other hand, I would like to point out that when President Eisenhower, using his authority, opened Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, at the point of a bayonet, all

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the liberals did not complain. This remember the incident at the University of Alabama and author and Lucy that took federal forest, too? And again the liberals cheered them on, and suddenly the liberals, as all upset about having force used on campus, even the mild amount of

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restraint force has been used. Census. The state. I'd like to remind them about Central High School in Little Rock and about the University of Alabama. Senator Albert Rod, uh, chairman of the state Senate Education Committee was on campus as you know, yes, and he was. He

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was critical of some of the college policies in relation to the current problems, but he specifically excluded you from his criticism on the grounds that you are not a free agent, that you are not free to create what he called, I believe a positive programs. The

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uproar of the past few weeks has made it completely impossible for me to discuss at length the plans I have for educational reform, for the extension of our educational services into the wider community to make any of these plants. In reality, though, there must be a

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permanent peace on campus. You think we're heading in that direction. I think we're heading. I think we're heading in that direction. We'll get there all the faster as soon as students and faculty alike, especially dissident students and faculty who I see as still the minority. It's

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just students. In fact, they realized that nothing they feel they can do, I've got to compel me to shut the school down. That's what they're trying to do is compel me to shut the school down, and I am not going to yield on that. I'm just

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as stubborn as they are. In fact, darn side stubborn area. As soon as they find that out and give up with this nonsense, then the sooner we'll get on to, you know, ethnic studies, black studies, special programs of all kinds. They're all in the books that

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their ambitious, dedicated teachers from all sorts of departments who are presenting me with memorandum this and that other exciting plan for science education for recreation, drama, music. Everything is going on. But these all these wonderful plans Just if we have to lie in advance on my

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on my desk drawer until we get this uproar settled. Doctor, you weren't sorry you took the post. Gosh. No, no, no. Right. Okay. Mhm. Mhm. Way back. Yeah. Here. Come on. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Go.

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Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm told that some of our students from San Francisco State College were part of that mob at Boulder. And so if people continue to ask me, is there a connection between the various campus disturbances? I can tell you very clearly

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that there is, and the students at the university of students and authorities at the University of Boulders, Colorado, said that in all those demonstrators, both white and black, there were other people from San Francisco State College. Some of them were from Denver, Denver University and other

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places, so that it was not simply a demonstration on the part of University of Colorado students. At that point to that point, sir, would you be in favor of a nationwide investigation? The STS. I think I would. There's enough interconnection going on between them all, that

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it would be a good idea, I think, to have a nationwide investigation for that, for that matter. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're already doing that. I'm going to throw, I'm going to I can't throw anything off the campus.

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I work democratically, naturally and with the advice of consent of various councillor deans and so on and so on. But if it is clearly established that there is on the part of an organization, whether it's the Ku Klux Klan or the SBS UHH conspiracy to disrupt

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the life of the campus, I shall certainly would certainly recommend the withdrawal of recognition of such a campus organization. The suppressive atmosphere created on this campus by Acting President S. I Hayakawa and Governor Ronald Reagan, in which they would rigidly deny the rights of meaningful education

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to black and other Third World people at any cost, he has made possible the injuries of brother peoples. The black students union deeply regrets the injury of brother peoples, but it is typical of what can occur when the governor of a state advocates the use of

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mass force and violence as a means to suppress people who are struggling for freedom and self determination, such as a case in. Alec was in Alabama in 1963 when three little black girls were killed while attending Sunday school, such as the case at San Francisco State

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College, 1969. What actions do does that? That's all I have to say for right now. Thank you. Yeah.