00:00:09.640 - 00:00:26.440

Well, your life has been pretty pretty for Why do you work so hard? I don't think anybody ever asked me that. So I don't have an answer for that right off that. But I really I guess it's always trying to prove to myself, you know, that

00:00:26.440 - 00:00:40.230

I can do whatever it is that I've determined is a challenge for me to do. Yeah, that's the only thing I could reason I can think of because I was talking about doing something earlier with someone today, and they were telling me that wasn't practical. And

00:00:40.230 - 00:00:54.660

I said, Well, right away you've discredited the whole premise of my life because if I had accepted what was practical, I'd still be a clerk at the Naval Supply Center in Ho Clinton because it was absolutely impractical for me to think that a kid with only

00:00:54.660 - 00:01:16.930

a high school diploma, you know, and only experience was clerical working for the the U. S. Navy should aspire to break into an industry where people of color had not been so you know, it za part of that challenge, Uh, that trying to accomplish a little

00:01:16.930 - 00:01:33.880

bit above what you think your abilities are That's a real motivator. And I can tell you I see it in my daughter and I cringe e actually cringe. And I you know, I try to counsel her, and I have I have no basis for being able

00:01:33.880 - 00:01:55.200

to do that because you still do that, even even now. E mean, you've already done so much. But you still pushed so hard. You know, I doesn't seem as though I've done so much. It seemed as though people have aided me in realizing ambitions. Uh, and

00:01:55.200 - 00:02:12.650

nobody does anything alone. So it means that I've just been really blessed to come across Ah, lot of wonderful people that you looked at my dreams and adopted them. Eso I don't consider it that I've done a lot. I consider it that I've been truly blessed

00:02:12.650 - 00:02:31.650

to have people with skills and abilities that if shared those with me, you know, and walk with me a lot of times. Crazy territory. How do you feel when people say that you're a pioneer? Uh, I guess if it wasn't for the scars of some of

00:02:31.650 - 00:02:48.410

the things that happened along the way and the only reason I'm beginning to realize now that their scars because I can still remember the incident so vividly. So obviously they were piercing and they were hurtful. Um, that is the That was the first of the recognition

00:02:48.420 - 00:03:06.600

that maybe I was traveling a road that was unplowed a t that time. But I never dealt with myself for the last 30 years in that way. Um, because if I was given the opportunity to do this, then it wasn't supposed to be anything special. I

00:03:06.600 - 00:03:26.230

was just supposed to do it. But so often, over these more than 30 years, you've been the only one. The only woman, The only person of color, period. Has that been a big mantle for you to have Thio carry a big, um Has it been difficult

00:03:26.230 - 00:03:44.270

to carry that for women and people of color? I don't think it's been difficult. I've considered it a privilege. My whole thing is that hoping not to disappoint people hoping always to do at least whatever the work was at an acceptable level. But the scars are

00:03:44.270 - 00:04:00.080

still very riel. You like you said you're very they still pierce your memory very much. Well, I mean, if you've gone through life you've done something really great. Say, I mean, you set a goal and you reach it for me. That was getting my image on

00:04:00.090 - 00:04:17.460

television. And then, you know, a reasonable amount of time into that. You walk into a room and you're mistaken for a made, even though you're with a TV camera person that's bound to bust that little balloon right away. And that happened to you. Yeah, it happened

00:04:17.460 - 00:04:36.320

to me. When was that? Many years ago. My God. Probably 30 years ago. And I still to this steak and remember it clearly as though it happened yesterday. It was a news conference, for it was a news conference. And, uh, you know, I was sent there

00:04:36.320 - 00:04:53.360

with a photographer like everybody else to do this story. And, you know, the days I could remember going to news conferences and be told that I couldn't come in. It was for reporters only. You mean those those air Pretty, um, pretty big moments, if you are.

00:04:54.640 - 00:05:13.660

If you at some point begin to assume that you have made an in road, you know, you've done it and then you get these little sharp reminders. Uh, they go, Yeah, so that that happened. You know, it happened a lot. One of the other scars that

00:05:14.140 - 00:05:30.390

at the very beginning could have easily have turned you away was what happened to KGO because you weren't even you hadn't gotten that first break yet, Remember, recall that story. I took me a while to get myself up off the floor from that one. And and

00:05:30.390 - 00:05:50.640

I think because I was pitted against, um, what would I say? I don't know how to categorize because I don't want I mean, this woman became a very good friend of mine. But just to say you're in for an interview, there's nobody that looks like you

00:05:50.640 - 00:06:12.050

in terms of skin color who has ever been on this turf. And your you're the other applicant is Ingrid Bergman's daughter. Now, why even stayed for the interview is a mystery to me. A. But that's what happened. And I guess because I didn't she wasn't really

00:06:12.050 - 00:06:23.960

interested in the job. They were just interested in her. We talked about it, you know, I was there for the job and she was there to do something else. She was touring for something, and, uh, in the next thing on you. She was in my interview

00:06:23.960 - 00:06:41.290

time and talking to the station manager and I was waiting. And when you did finally go in, what happened? Well, he talked to me politely, never mentioned that he'd already interviewed her and practically offered the job. But he just told me that they end of it,

00:06:41.290 - 00:06:58.500

that they just were not hiring Negress is. And But if they ever considered, you know, the hiring of a neat Chris, then they would certainly think about me and South first place I had. I mean, I knew I was hurt, but I didn't know why. And

00:06:58.500 - 00:07:14.740

then when I went, you know, this is my life. Okay, so I go home and look up in the dictionary to see if I could find out what a negress thing. You know, there were Tigris animals. But it wasn't a term that you used for, you

00:07:14.740 - 00:07:33.420

know, for a person. So that was very hurtful. And I couldn't decide how to handle it because the man who said it was very well respected by black people, too, because he was seen as a real liberal and I couldn't decide what action to take. So

00:07:33.420 - 00:07:54.170

I really didn't tell anybody. I just did determined that I was going to show him that I could. Somehow this was nice. Out 19 sixties. This was probably 1965 on, and San Francisco in the sixties around the rest of the country was viewed as Wow. I

00:07:54.170 - 00:08:12.900

know this great bastion of liberal ideas and racial harmony and all of that. But you know, as with so much about San Francisco, even today, it's not. Everything is not what it appears to be, because at the same time that was going on, the NAACP was

00:08:12.900 - 00:08:30.180

meeting with this same man had. In fact, that's how I got there, because the had been in to meet with them because at that point at KGO was considered the most liberal of the stations. So there were these meetings with the managers, and I was the

00:08:30.180 - 00:08:48.710

candidate that the civil rights group asked to go there in a and apply for this job. Now my story to them was that they had an opportunity to go in a different direction and that I appreciated the chance and I would keep applying and we're going

00:08:48.710 - 00:09:04.930

to do this thing. And so you were sent in to integrate the lunch counter. That was it. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that was it. I think what they have done is, you know, go in and beat on the table. And obviously, we're told, you know, we'll

00:09:04.940 - 00:09:22.290

find us some buddy, and that was often the tactic back then. So then you went to channel five. That was really another one of the weird corners because I didn't Even I didn't directly go to Channel five. I was just reading in the society page about

00:09:22.290 - 00:09:39.360

what? You know, I like to read about other people's lives or how they live. And on I read something on the society page about Nancy Reynolds being such great friends to the Reagans and that if Reagan one, uh, became governor of California, she really hoped that

00:09:39.360 - 00:09:54.730

she would become his press secretary. Well, I did not know that she had not told directly her bosses at channel five about this. So when I read it in the paper, I called immediately and I wanted to play. How do you go about applying for a

00:09:54.730 - 00:10:15.230

job in TV over there like this? And so that was in, like November and we just before the election. So then after that, they found out, indeed, she waas hoping to get the appointment when Reagan was sworn in in January. So in the intra, um, they

00:10:15.230 - 00:10:33.860

started a search, and by the time they were done, they had interviewed 67 people. I never forget that 67 people and s o the end of that year in December, just before the Reagan people. We're gonna go in the first week of January, and they needed

00:10:33.870 - 00:10:51.670

Nancy to go with them. So they they hired me on and said it would be, ah, month or so before I could actually start. And they wanted me toe lose weight. That's what they say. But you gotta lose £10 in 30 days on. And you did?

00:10:51.680 - 00:11:13.910

Yeah, of course. And you got it. Yeah. Ah, lot of people will see you and say, Here's this petite, very elegant woman. Um, soft spoken, Humble. But you are a little powerhouse. A little dynamite. A very aggressive You go after. Thanks. That was my first point.

00:11:13.910 - 00:11:32.640

Is it? I really try not to let barriers and barricades hold me back and I'm defeated a lot but it sure in the heck isn't cause I've given it the whole college try. I just I say yes to everything, but I don't take it with someone

00:11:32.640 - 00:11:52.630

tells me know where did that come from? Here. I don't know. In you, I wish I knew. Probably some of it. The stubbornness comes from my father, who didn't get along with because he was very determined man and, you know, But I'm sure that a lot

00:11:52.630 - 00:12:06.360

of it came from that. I mean, my father was a guy that figured we should know the capital of every state in the union and every major river and which way it ran Where the north, south eastern west. And we didn't know that we were failing

00:12:06.360 - 00:12:25.800

in school. Excuse me, Greg. My You have this. What pushes me, I mean, all the time, E Even now you're You know, you're kind of wrapping up this month kind of winding down, but not really. I mean, you're still pushing and pushing yourself doing and anyone

00:12:25.800 - 00:12:40.780

else could easily, you know, just kind of take it easy this last couple of weeks, but no, down to the bitter end. And not that it's the end. But as you begin to make this transition, you're still pushing them. Yeah, Determined. Yeah, I guess what I'm

00:12:40.780 - 00:13:04.920

looking for it is How can I fashion with some sense of a relax ation of the pressure? Really something. Jimmy Carter talks about an effective and challenging life at this point. What? What do I do at this point? That I would consider effective and challenging, And

00:13:04.920 - 00:13:20.970

I'm not sure exactly what that ISS, but I know that it will be revealed to me somehow something will have, but you're still on a number of boards. Committees. You go to hearings. You're still I mean, your life is so full even with what you do

00:13:20.970 - 00:13:42.490

here in the station. Um, that's not going to change, is it? No. No. But, you know, I'm really lucky to have one of the most wonderful marriages and most wonderful husband. And I think that guy put here on Earth just a great guy, and, um, I

00:13:42.490 - 00:13:58.320

have taken him so for granted over these years, you know, he thinks it's his turn, and probably that's gonna be my challenge to give him his turn. Well, let me let me go back to KPIX for a minute. They really made you feel welcome there. I

00:13:58.330 - 00:14:13.630

understand. Yeah. Ben was already there. He was actually the first. Yes, African American hired in the Mars, willing to fight for me, too. And so he wa So, Yeah, something happened. I don't remember. I hope Van remembers, but somebody did something to me and been invited

00:14:13.630 - 00:14:29.900

them out into the hall. He was ready to go to battle. Hey, was just I mean, I had such great, um, great support from the the reporting staff. The photography staff was not quite as nice here you were. You hadn't really had a television job before.

00:14:29.900 - 00:14:46.470

You've done radio and worked in newspapers. Done freelance writing. Were you frightened? Oh, God, yes. I was so afraid that it was weeks before anybody ever saw me on the air. And I was fortunate to work with an editor who told me and I took it

00:14:46.470 - 00:15:02.960

Is my bible people do not tune in to see the reporter. They tune in for the newsmaker. They want to see the person making the news. And that's your job. To deliver that to them. And I took that so serious that it was months. My mother

00:15:02.960 - 00:15:17.610

said, Well, am I ever going to see you on TV? Am I only gonna always just hear your voice can never see you So I really did take that. And I even today it's hard to find me and what's called a stand up, you know, because

00:15:17.620 - 00:15:33.500

I just sort of avoid that. I tryto we noticed that when we were trying to find go through your pieces, they said they used to play tricks on you, A capable yes, they I was just the perfect foil force and people they knew that I knew

00:15:33.510 - 00:15:48.280

they cared about me so I could take it. But they would embarrass me sometimes on the air, but not in a way that was hurtful. E think I told this story. Every T is that you know, I worked with two really great guys and the sports

00:15:48.280 - 00:16:00.670

guy in the anchor Ron Majors and Barry Tompkins and I wanted to come to sports. I would just drift off all the time until one day they finally couldn't take it anymore. So they were doing sports and they were chatting and I was sitting there making

00:16:00.670 - 00:16:16.920

my grocery shopping list because I was gonna go food shopping on. I got off here, and all of a sudden they noticed it was silent. They had stopped and Ron was pointed. And then he took my shopping list on held it up. Very, you know, Do

00:16:16.920 - 00:16:33.820

you see what was going on? Yeah. So that's what I meant about humor. It was never bitter humor. It was fun. You had fun with that? I did. So in a way, you that first job worked out really well. And you did. It wasn't as painful

00:16:33.820 - 00:16:46.810

as it might have been considering some of the other things that happened I wanted to ask you about. I know this is flipping back, um, in and Craig doesn't necessarily have it. But I thought when you would cover that, um, the Goldwater convention. You're a radio

00:16:46.810 - 00:17:00.160

reporter then and went with another reporter. You went in. And what happened? Well, we were the first of all. We tried to go in through the press gate, and even though you know, we had our little business cards and so forth, we were not allowed to

00:17:00.160 - 00:17:14.240

go in with the other the white reporters, so but we were told we could get general admission into the cow palace, which is where it Waas. And so we went in and we went up in the bleachers and we took our little equipment and we went

00:17:14.240 - 00:17:29.550

every day number days. But on this particular day, it was a bitter day in which they, throughout all the major anchors and everybody else, and we haven't been up there in the bleachers where we've been, you know, sentenced to buy ourselves. And so then they start

00:17:30.140 - 00:17:43.340

announcing on the loudspeaker. You know how the press wasn't welcomed or something of that sort? I can't remember. But whatever it was, we knew that we were supposed to leave. But we were way up at the top of this cow palace and we started down, and

00:17:43.340 - 00:18:00.960

as we started down, they started yelling Racial epithets set us. Then as we went down this wind the road, Then people from above started throwing beer bottles at us people through pieces of food. And I was with this really proud guy, Lewis Freeman, who was really

00:18:00.960 - 00:18:20.140

my mentor. And so Lewis said, as we carried our stuff, if you cry, if you run, I will personally break your neck and we walked with all dignity around that's longest walked on Earth for me. I had never felt more relieved than to get, you know,

00:18:20.150 - 00:18:37.000

get out of there. And that's when I resolved Thio do political reporting. Mhm. Uh huh. Oh, okay. Instead of run the other way, I would just ask to leave. I don't know what they did. I remember hearing Walter Cronkite talk about it on an interview once,

00:18:37.740 - 00:18:51.580

but I don't know what was going on over on their part of the aisle because we were not allowed there. Also, there were civil rights demonstrators outside the cow palace and some trying to get in. Yes, yes, blacks were, Ah, presence around the couch house at

00:18:51.580 - 00:19:06.350

that time was, Well, yeah, I guess that's why we're okay once we get outside, my whole thing was to make that circle to get circular thing. And the worst part was that people then could throw things down at you as you're going. So even when things

00:19:06.350 - 00:19:24.890

struck us, we just you know, we just kept We never increased our pace. Who were your champions? That man, Louis Freeman, was one. I mean, he was just a brilliant but one of the most well read persons I've ever met back. He runs a bookstore in

00:19:24.900 - 00:19:45.090

Denver right now, Um, just so solid. He he knew about world events about, you know, the economy. Who? The heroes, who The great people were thought out deep questions and issues. And so I would read books that I barely understood. And he would allow me to

00:19:45.090 - 00:20:00.870

go along with him on his interviews and programs and and then debate issues with me, and that was really great. And then there was a woman named Edith Austin who wrote for the Sun reporter who I greatly greatly admired. E mean, she probably was one of

00:20:00.870 - 00:20:11.700

the persons I learned some of the stamina from, because Edith Austin never took no from anybody. You know, a lot of young people look at the television, they'll see you or they'll see the few of us that are on and say, Wow, that you know, that

00:20:11.700 - 00:20:28.150

people call us role models were not. But you didn't have a role model now? No on television, but I had maybe something better than most other people. I had a great support system. I mean, the black community was so happy. When I got this job, the

00:20:28.150 - 00:20:43.950

links came and had an awards ceremony in the lobby of the station. People send letters. I mean, it was it was a big community thing. And partly because I had been with the Sun Reporter, I had all these connections, you know, very close ties to the

00:20:43.950 - 00:21:01.120

black community. And I remember loose Simon, who was just stepped down a station manager K p i x saying I mean, now you've got to remember you're not just a black reporter. You're a reporter for the entire community now. And don't you forget e thought, Hey,

00:21:01.120 - 00:21:17.990

that's pretty dog gone good. Is there any disappointment when, like a lot of the young people who are coming in now who don't have a sense of what you went through or people like, you know, the pioneers in every market with, um kind of don't have

00:21:17.990 - 00:21:40.980

that connection with the community That's very sad to me, only because there's so much that goes on within the black community that the struggle for a voice on the front page is almost a bad as it waas. When I started, I mean, they're people like you

00:21:40.980 - 00:21:59.330

who moved into, you know, the Oakland community where you know people and they know you. But there's so many people who come from out of town move into areas that are connected to nothing in particular. Wait a minute. I know that. I'm sorry. I got to

00:21:59.330 - 00:22:13.690

say this. I don't hurt anybody's feelings to e don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings, but you will, but yeah, but But it is very hard, you know, even if you're a person of color, If you live in a community and I do that, I live, that's where

00:22:13.690 - 00:22:29.460

I live now. So I know where there are very few black people to understand the struggles and the trials that are going on within the black community. And, uh, part of the whole civil rights struggle was to try and cure that problem to a degree. And

00:22:30.040 - 00:22:47.770

ah, lot of people see you, though, as because you don't cover just the black community. Although you you certainly fight for those stories. But because you chose politics and love politics. So, um, a lot of people trust you. They have a sense of your integrity and,

00:22:49.940 - 00:23:08.260

uh, in the corner here, Right there. Okay. And a lot of women of all races. Kind of see you. Is there model to is a comfortable wearing that? But you know, e mean, it wasn't just that I was, you know, the black reporter. I was the

00:23:08.260 - 00:23:28.660

woman reporter. And that was almost as much of a drawback for me as being a woman of color. Not quite, but almost because there was so many places. Then, you know, I can remember going Thio Cem private men's clubs where I was invited to lunch, and

00:23:28.660 - 00:23:42.820

I was not allowed to be seated with the party that I was with. Uh, and that was because of my sex. I remember trying to join the press club here, not being our able to join because it wasn't open toe women. So I met. There was

00:23:42.820 - 00:23:59.660

so many silly things going on. E i really, In one private club, literally. There was a dining room where they actually set the table up. So they ended up in the doorway so that my chair ended up in the hall instead of in the room. Kidding.

00:23:59.670 - 00:24:14.250

And that's how we had lunch. Now why I tolerated that is something, but I think I just wasn't gonna let them turn me away. And so since they wouldn't turn me away, they had to think of a way to accommodate my host, who was terribly embarrassed.

00:24:14.260 - 00:24:29.560

Didn't know he'd run into this problem. There's it was so much stuff. It just seems so silly today, doesn't it? Yes, what difference would have made Divided in that room off course. That's what they said about the lunch counters to write. How did the minority communities

00:24:29.560 - 00:24:45.800

get covered then, since there wasn't much exposure on television? Well, I think you know, I went in and I was lucky to have one of the best news men in the country. Fred's Ender is my assignment editor, so I can't say that it was difficult if

00:24:45.800 - 00:25:00.550

I came in and fought for something hard enough. I could wear him down and we do it, and both men and I've been lived in Oakland, and, you know, I lived in Berkeley and El Cerrito, and so so we were good conduits and we didn't have

00:25:01.640 - 00:25:22.350

as much difficulty. But yeah, we didn't have as much difficulties. One might think, because remember the turbulent seventies and late sixties where it was in anything goes time and back the stories that were dominating, you know, with Black Panther Party peace rallies and all that stuff.

00:25:23.140 - 00:25:43.110

Um, was it was it perceived that you might not be a spare or as unbiased Because you are black female? If my bosses, we're told that they never told me and I was accused of being a lot of things and often told to go back to

00:25:43.110 - 00:26:02.440

Africa through letter and through phone call. But very seldom was I accused of not being fair. And, uh, sometimes I used to feel guilty about that. Especially when I interviewed What's his name? Shockley. At UC Berkeley. I shouldn't have been fared. But you know, the one

00:26:02.440 - 00:26:16.890

thing that people said, Oh, but you were so fair. You know, maybe I should have had a point of view. I don't know, but I tried very hard. Thio, you mentioned a Craig that you weren't an activist. You were non activist prior to, But many of

00:26:16.890 - 00:26:36.960

us see you as an activist and an advocate, not to the point of not being fair, but certainly on all of our behalf. Even now has that been a tough to juggle. I'm when I say activists I met, I wasn't one that no participate in a

00:26:36.960 - 00:26:53.170

lot of marches and things of that sort. But I was always fighting for one thing or the other, constantly fighting, trying to find a way within the system to change things. And, you know, that happened. So I felt it was worth continuing to try. And you

00:26:53.170 - 00:27:16.550

still dio Yeah. Is the fight harder now? Easier now? In some sense, it's harder because we were writing the wave where it was the popular belief that there were inequities in this country that needed to be corrected. There are many people who foolishly, uh, don't think

00:27:16.550 - 00:27:35.940

that exist any longer. And unfortunately, some of them are people of color who feel that way. And so certainly that that job is not done by any means. Any means. Yeah. Um, Bill says Craig, top of Bill. And, um, he says that some of the people

00:27:35.940 - 00:27:52.260

and officials during the early days of your career wouldn't talk to you. They wouldn't give you interviews. They would address your camera, man. They would describe that anybody still around that you remember who did that to you that maybe now, like you in many cases, have

00:27:52.260 - 00:28:09.560

a bond with a lot of the people who didn't treat you so well before. Nobody, that's of any consequence. E those air people who faded from the scene. You know, I think it speaks to their fiber now. Was it hard for you, Thio to get the

00:28:09.570 - 00:28:29.780

big stories, The lead stories back? Yes, that was hard. That was difficult. And I I never was able to target that as to whether that had to do with my gender or my race, but it didn't last forever. It's something that, you know, you worked at

00:28:29.780 - 00:28:43.780

it. I think again, it's like trying to decide on your own direction. I decided I want to do education. Before education was like the top beat in the office. So by the time it was the top beat in the office, I was already the education reporter,

00:28:43.790 - 00:28:59.170

and by then, you know, there was a demonstration or something going on at Cal Berkeley every day or at some school somewhere, and I would end up, you know, having to be involved in those stories wouldn't necessarily always had the lead by myself, but I would

00:28:59.170 - 00:29:18.090

be involved in those stories. You've covered so many stories. So many major personalities and people and officials. Who do you have? One that was either your most challenging or your most rewarding or one that really stands out or somebody you love interviewing. You always enjoy well,

00:29:18.100 - 00:29:32.720

all of those things. But I can tell you about one that I had great difficulty getting on the air. And just on Lee got just a few seconds of sound on beer about, and that was Adam Clayton Powell and he he was at Berkeley. Speaking of

00:29:32.720 - 00:29:47.780

Sproul Plaza and this. These ran his waning days, and no one was interested in Adam Pal. I was the only reported that state and did a one on one with him. And then I had to fight Thio get us to include him in our show because

00:29:47.780 - 00:30:07.230

he was considered a has been right on not not important to the movement, you know, he he was establishment, and right now we're covering the Panthers. It's sort of like that so and and then having the opportunity to really thio talk to not for long periods

00:30:07.230 - 00:30:30.210

of time but for individual exchanges with Martin Luther King Jr was always I'll always treasure that because it was extremely special. Um, you know, no matter what you say, I look on the other side of the aisle. One of the most open governors to me was

00:30:30.210 - 00:30:51.350

Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan actually invited me to his birthday party at his house on. I'm sure that's because of Nancy Reynolds, who's, you know, who's place. I, too, at K P I X, but I had better access to him. How was he to cover? Very charming,

00:30:52.240 - 00:31:09.440

Um, never heavy I e think. One of the more interesting things that I was allowed to do was Thio Goto a lunch at their house one time and go with a group of other small group of women to his office to deliver his jelly beans, which

00:31:09.440 - 00:31:24.590

is what we did. We filled all of his jellybean char's e the governor's office, and the route is person in the most difficult for me to cover is the present mayor of Oakland. Jerry Brown gave me a harder time than anybody when he was governor. Ladies

00:31:24.590 - 00:31:40.600

governor gave me a very hard time, but we worked around it. Things got done. Interviews happened different. Is there someone that you just love interviewing? You always enjoy? You have a great relationship with the mayor of San Francisco? Yeah, there's an old friend. Is he one

00:31:40.600 - 00:31:57.980

of your favorite interviews? So glib Because you never know what's gonna be said. You never know what direction the conversation is gonna take, and so that that's always That's always interesting, because you don't have to prepare for it. Really. Just put a lot of things on

00:31:57.980 - 00:32:13.370

the table and see where he's going to take it. Anybody else? Who you really love to interview? Maybe only did him once, but you loved talking with them. Learning are Well, you know, I really have always had a great on camera relationship with Dianne Feinstein. I

00:32:13.380 - 00:32:36.000

always felt that that we understood. She understood my questions, and the answers were in response to those to those questions. Um, so I certainly enjoyed that. Um, do you like politicians? Basically, Yes. I think most of America doesn't trust them or us. That's an evolution. I

00:32:36.000 - 00:32:55.960

can remember when news reporters used to be next to priests in terms of people who are believable, entrusted so times have changed, and I think circumstances has brought about certain kinds of characteristic changes in those who would seek government. Now the number one trait you need

00:32:55.960 - 00:33:13.410

to serve in government is the ability to raise money if you don't have the ability to raise money, doesn't matter how smart you are or what have you. And this is my aging memory that's going out trying to remember the congressman from the San Jose Santa

00:33:13.410 - 00:33:29.660

Clara era who was there and who carried so much of the legislation civil rights that got it, which he could remember his name later on, that it would have been like Everybody have to remember all who they are. I entered was one of three reporters interviewing

00:33:30.240 - 00:33:45.750

Gerald Ford just before he was shot at here. Affected used to be the stories that that, you know he was after the interview. Everybody was so race conscious back then that he made a point walking across the room, shaking my hand at the end of the

00:33:45.750 - 00:33:56.300

interview. I think I told you this and going out and Ron Majors and I tell you how they used to tease me and then we went over to the window to watch and get in his car. And, of course, this woman shot at me and Ron

00:33:56.300 - 00:34:02.590

was spreading the story that it was the black hand that got him E.