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you know I'm Richard. I'm going to start with you because I have been accused so many times in my life of doing at least a dozen stories about how Oakland is about to emerge and become this place that everybody says it should be. What inspired you

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to hang on for many years as you did and trying to record e was going to say that it's a city with enormous potential and which direction is gonna go. No one seems to be Oh, but it's a very interesting place, absolutely gorgeous, and it's setting.

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And so I was captivated by all the different Oakland's that I saw in the downtown and really no conception of which was going to be the final result. It's a city that has so many directions that could possibly lead Thio, and it's just wonderful to witness

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it. It it is very important juncture, and it's just in its history. The smell there your life is busy, cluttered with lots of things. Great, great, etcetera, etcetera. You took the time to write the introduction in the commentary for this book. Why did you decide that?

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Okay, well, not only the Richard asked me to do it, But I've had an interest in Oakland since moving here 1979 and I think that, like some of the other cities you might live in in the United States, whatever you may say about Oakland, it's that

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character just to find it's got, Neighborhood says. They used to be where people look out for each other and having lived in other parts of California, always from being personal. So I came back from El Cerrito, open from the Hills, Thio here on I think Oakland

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is a very pleasant place to live. There are certain problems here, but I think these problems are being dealt. I've been one of the most vocal critics of some of the problems in Oakland downtowns responsible. But I would say that that not only does Oakland have

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potential, but has a tradition which I think that Richard has really captured and these photos he's caught the city at Crossroads. Let's say in the book whether it's gonna be one of these. So did you see all of the country where lots of money supported development,

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the neighborhoods are neglected or whether it's gonna be human city with people in the first being the priority. I'll be concerns of people in the city s. So I think that this is the People city. It's a working class city. There's no crux city. It's still

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got a little the frontier we have discovered while doing research for the book. Just let me interject to say that Ishmael title for his introduction. I thought it was absolutely extraordinary, which was the city that refuses to die. And I think that's a great way toe.

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Describe Oakland, as others have described, Chicago is the city of Big Shoulders. It's just such a nap. Way to think about Oakland because it's a tough fighting city. It keeps coming back. It's so maney blows and had the October of 87 the stock market crash, October

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of 89 the earthquake October of 91 the Oakland Hills fire and it's come back from all of those terrible blows, and it keeps struggling on. It's a wonderful time, and it is a working class time. What do you think it is a bad a city that

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is putting as much energy in to try to revitalize itself and still can't gain the confidence of people with money to help it do it. This man will yield to you on that one. That's more of you. I think that I think that we have a

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crisis, that other cities Christ are also experiences. And I think maybe this is peak. But I think that the publicity attracted to this thing competition over markets among drug dealers is really turning people off or dissuading people from coming into the city. I don't know how

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one deals with that. I think maybe it'll go away. But I think it's a commentary on how our city is treated by of the private sector that illegal Mexican and Colombian industries are more successful than providing jobs for our youth. In the business of the United

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States. They're going abroad and according these jobs abroad, cross getting exporting these jobs well, certain certain interests in South America and other places are riding our kids with jobs. I think that's a foreign situation. I haven't heard a solution for it, but as long as these

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people who run the industries in this country care more about profits thing about their people, then thes cities are gonna continue, have a bad reputation. But I think that, uh, I've been looking at statistics. I complain when the crime rate was high on I'm a salute,

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the local law enforcement people who have who have done something about that. As a matter of fact, I attended a neighborhood meeting last night. What the markets Big quarter, where we all get together and talk to the police to talk to the Christmas downtown on the

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police have been successful in and indeed, some of these industries. They got a round of applause, which is quite unusual, but we're working together with people downtown to try to improve the situation. But I think that's the one factor that's preventing businesses from coming in because

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they always give open the back of Listen. I took on NBC once I complain, the NBC came in here to do a story on crack mothers. Grandmothers were raising Children of crack Children of their Children, and that's the only way they could see. Oakland has some

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place where there it's cracked going on. But when there's a successful story like a couple years ago, Open was voted all American City, we don't get that kind of coverage. Something part of this publicity. So let's talk about some reasons why you feel proud of Oakland.

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What is it in the architecture and its buildings, or in its people that make it special in your life? What makes it special for me is that you could walk one block on be in the year 18 75. You could walk in another block and you're

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in the thirties. You can see Oakland what it was like during the war after the war, and then you could go a few more blocks now. And there are extraordinary new buildings that are going up to me. The one that's the most interesting is the new

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federal building. People don't talk about that much, and it's a really extraordinary feat of architecture is a wonderful building, and it's really a Jule tow have in downtown Oakland, and I use it in the book a lot as a new focal point, almost in the way

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that the Oakland Tribune tower used to be a public point for another period in Oakland straight. So it's great that a new landmark has grown up here in the East Bank. It's a wonderful building. It's a resource for all of us here. Do you think let's

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get some time. Perhaps over is not so control place where this ride the Pony Express. That's interesting. Thank you. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is It's so quiet looking at it. But when the noisiest like this Sunday more Okay. Okay. So that was another hotel

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worry for just two numbers here. Sort of. Why they this one of those stunning places I've ever been in. Whatever e don't know what happened. Millions. But it's a beautiful is the paramount, but in a different way. This was This is That's the Clorox building. Oh,

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God. By the way, you shot it. Yeah, but there wasn't. Now there's another building in between here. Oh, that was before. What? You mean to say that I mean, the title page are just go ahead. Okay. Sure. Your is it