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mm hmm. Politics is really uh it's the art of the phony. Uh it really is. You take phoniness to its high state and you really almost perfect. And then somebody comes along who evidence is a total disdain for that phoniness. Whether that be phony or not,

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it becomes a new sellable quality. And luckily with me it was just me and it has worked. I don't know if it stopped working, would I change? I don't know. Mhm. Mhm. And cecil Williams, Assemblyman Willie Brown is speaker of the house.

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He is the first black to hold the second most powerful position in the state of California. Come with me and let's meet the speaker. Let's find out what he's thinking, feeling and doing as the speaker speaks out when you speak your mind. Is that the real

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Willie Brown? Why didn't he sold if you start out in this crazy political business early on trying to figure out what is the proper thing to say, forgive an audience in order to keep that audience on your side, you pretty soon um absolutely lose everything that

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you believe in. And you start playing only to the audience. I started out saying exactly what I wanted to say, what I believed in and champion what I wanted to champion and doing pretty much what I wanted to do and being very public about it. I

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get the feeling that you really want to be different than any other Speaker of the house, in the state of California. I'd like to kind of have history records that every step that I took in life. Um I took it with the maximum amount of uh

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the utilization of my ability, my energy, whatever I have. And I'd like to think that that might be the best and that might be the standard and the role model for all other human beings and in the capacity of speaker of the California legislature. I would

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like to build upon what Sandra, bob Moretti, bob, Mulligan and Leo McCarthy did. I served under all four of those individuals. I was privy to many of their decisions and I certainly observed what I think for most of their mistakes. I don't intend to make any

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of those mistakes. I also intend to try as best I can to expand and enhance upon all of those great things that I thought they did. It is a job that um has the appointed powers Of a maybe 1/2 governor. It has the legislative powers of

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79 other persons who have entrusted it to you because you name every committee chairman, you name every member of every committee, you whole life of death over the assignment of bills. No, everybody wants to have access to the speaker and membership and what have you. They

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really don't want to go by way of appointments. They don't want to go by way of staff and the one place that they can do it is on the floor and all of those conversations have some implications for running a house. Those conversations extend to some

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personal problem that a member may be having. Those conversations related to votes that may be about to be cast or issues that may be coming up on monday or Tuesday or some activities that somebody approached them about with reference to where I may be on a

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given issue and they want to be consistent and they're trying to touch bases with me to hear from me whether or not that's what I want them to do and whether or not that's what I'm doing. Do you have more to prove as speaker because you're

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black? Oh, absolutely. System in this country will never, I don't think in my lifetime really allow racial minorities and particularly blacks to simply be measured by ordinary standards. Oh, and frankly I enjoyed that because sometimes by virtue of the fact that you're not measured by ordinary

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standards, some of the ordinary things you do are ballooned up and ask them a nice because it sometimes gives you a little bit of an edge. But most times not every time I make a public appearance, I'm expected to be the best on the program. As

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distinguished from all the other speakers who are just tolerated no matter what they are. Are the other politicians, uh, Willie Brown at less than Willie Brown's best on any occasion is a cause for concern. People come home and ask, are you feeling all right? Well, you

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know, I've heard all those other people and none of them have ever even come close to me at my worst and I'm not being braggadocious, but I'm expected always to be at that highest level. And so as speaker, I understand that and I accept that challenge

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and I intend to meet that challenge. I think every other black and any position is similarly situated when we return, Willie Brown talks about gaining political power and the abuse of it. Power seeks power. It's an intoxicating thing when you enjoy it. How do you prevent

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yourself from abusing the power that you have cecil that comes from within hopefully for everybody. But for me, it's more than from within my associations and my friendships are really the strength of my discipline and my limitations on power. Anybody entrusted with power, I literally cannot

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exercise that power. Power is so transitory you can exercise at one time in this business I hold life and death over any piece of legislation. If I use that capriciously, I only get to use it one time. I probably have more respect for power than most

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people and I'm probably more reluctant to use power than most people. I'm far more conservative at using the trappings of the office of the speakership than probably any of my predecessors. Speakers. I just think that the job of being speaker really doesn't entitle the individual who

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has that job. It doesn't entitle that individual to use that power to fashion the world in the image of that individual. I think most people thought many people thought that that's exactly what I would do. Fortunately. However, my colleagues knew me well enough to have observed

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me with the chairmanship of the Ways and means Committee, which was a very powerful position, chairmanship of the reverend tax Committee, which was a very powerful position in the majority leader spot, which was a reasonably powerful position and in none of those respective categories. Did I

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ever even pretend to abuse that power? How do you avoid? How do you avoid that? The misuse of getting yourself in a position of a scandal or of misusing then not only the power, but The position that one may have, I am very sensitive to the

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fact that as one moves in this business and as one gets positions of power, uh, that power can be easily misused. I will not under any circumstances literally invest in anything. I'm in this business a long time and cecil. I own nothing. I am sometimes criticized

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for my cars and my clothing and my alleged excess expended to us in that regard. But let me tell you, you spend it that way. It certainly won't ever end up being an investment for anybody except you. And it's very public in its record because it's

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recorded and I make the bills and I paid the bills and I pay it out of my income. And then finally, on the question of income taxes, I bet I pay on the dollar per dollar basis. More income taxes than any other member of the legislature

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percentage wife. I'll make a whole lot of money in that regard. But cecil, I have seldom been under at least 39-50% of my total income going for income taxes, state and federal. And I do that cecil because I don't take all the deductions that I am

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entitled to. I just do not take the deduction that entitled. So when they order, if they find something that I shouldn't have taken on their inadvertently, I got a whole list of things that they already owe me on. They went through a comprehensive tax audit of

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me several years ago when they were going through the legislature after the after about, I don't know, nine months of looking at me in great detail. I got a letter from the government that said, uh and I was the only one of the members of the

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legislature who didn't have to pay an additional penny because I had understated everything all of that is over being overcautious. But man, I don't intend to have Willie Brown's political career end. Because somebody said he took something, somebody said he improperly. I don't need that. I

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came out of texas with a with a With a shoe box and it had chicken before. The Col knew about chicken in 1951. I can use that same shoebox and go back to Texas with that chicken. Everything that I have I know could disappear overnight. So

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none of it is part of my psychic belief in Willie Brown. None of it would I go crazy if I lost it? We know that there are many legislators that work as lawyers representing clients before local and state agencies. Do you think the laws designed to

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prevent a conflict of interests need to be strengthened? Their individual would like very much to say that person's holding public office should not under any circumstances, represent anybody anywhere before any state body before the local body or what have you? I agree, no state body, but

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as long as I am not a local elected official, I should not be disqualified from practicing my trade if I am not a full time elected official. Were I the mayor? I shouldn't have any other outside occupation. Were I the governor, No outside occupation. But I

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am a part time employee of the California legislature with a gross salary of $28,500 a year. That is defined as part time. It's paid as part time period. To add on top of that the disability because I happen to be a lawyer because I happen to

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be whatever my profession as distinguished from a guy who owns stock in gulf oil and does no work, but just receives income from that because I didn't acquire enough wealth to invest in stocks and bonds and now clip coupons that I somehow ought to be disqualified

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from practicing my profession. I would love to have KPI X and all of those who are advocating conflict of interest. Don't advocate conflict of interest, say Willie Brown should not have any outside income, eliminate all of the possibilities of conflict of interest and then pay me

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a salary that makes me a public official who is properly compensated for his efforts. And I will be willing as every other member of the legislature. And I suspect every other elected official to forego any outside income. And when you do that, you must also say

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that I shouldn't have money coming from investments from Union Oil and I must shouldn't have money coming because I don't believe that you should impose upon me the vow of poverty and allow the air to the Union Oil fortune not to have to be in the

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same way in a moment. Willie Brown's views on the future of the civil rights movement. Do you see a resurgence of civil rights demonstrations in the eighties? Absolutely. Let me tell you, Ronald Reagan is gonna do more to reenergize the black folk in this country. And

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other folks who are down front. I am telling you, it'll take maybe 18 to 24 months. But there's nonsense about supply side economics and this nonsense about people taking their in the tax savings and reinvest in it. They certainly are there gonna be reinvested in new

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computers that are not labor intensive. They're gonna reinvest it in new capital structures. They're gonna put in new security systems. And none of it has to do with giving that poor cedar worker a job. They are not been one nickel in that. And let me tell

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you those Ceta workers who have been able to pay their bills, been able to send their kids to school, been able to shop maybe just at Mervyn's. But they've been able to shop and they've been able to do it with dignity and they don't want welfare.

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They started to earn a living. Certainly, they had to buy a used car, but it was better than no car. They certainly, uh, may have had to live in the public housing projects initially, but eventually they moved to Section eight subsidized housing. But Reagan's taking all

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of that away and man, you can't raise the expectations and give them a taste and think they're going to go back to imprisonment and go back to being confined to the ghetto. They aren't gonna do that cecil Miami in the riot a year ago in that

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demonstration, I think was just a forerunner. And I don't mean to predict, you know, explosions in this country. I don't want anybody to say that Willie Brown is saying that they're gonna be riots. I am telling you that the march on Washington Within two or 3

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years would be considered just a picnic with the kind of things Reagan is doing that may result in damage to this country and may result in having driving people back in the streets. And so I think the movement is going to be re energized. What is

00:15:12.060 - 00:15:31.730

your position on bussing button has just become an absolute destroyer of good political careers in the state of California. I'm tired of those careers being ended. I don't want to see tom Bradley lose the governorship because somebody says that he is the black writing on that

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yellow school bus and that represents a threat to your child and the stability of the family and what have you. So I'm recommending that those of us in this arena simply say, listen, I am not gonna defend bussing anymore as the only technique by which to

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integrate public schools period. I'm just not gonna defend it. I'm not gonna let you impose upon me the defense of bussing. Now, that doesn't mean that in the deliberations of the school board, they ought not to consider bussing. It just means that Willie Brown is not

00:16:00.250 - 00:16:16.920

going to be there to say the scenic queen. None of racial integrated public schools is the school bus moving my kid from hunters point to the sunset in san Francisco the sunset nonsense. I'm not going to defend that In 1974 when you were running for the

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speaker of the House. Some of us came up to lobby for you and we went to the offices of four or 5 black legislators, One of the black legislators said in very specific terms, I will not support Willie Brown because he's too intelligent. How do you

00:16:37.720 - 00:16:51.360

feel about that Since the 1974 was a weird time because those brothers did do me in, they had the votes and I had all the white folks that I needed. All I needed was the four brothers to walk in and straighten out their heads. They didn't

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uh, and you know, for probably a month or so, I really wanted to wreak vengeance. But then, Oh yeah, personally. Oh yeah, that was devastated. That was really bad. That was bad. But I never, no, no, not really. I should have, I should have, I should

00:17:09.370 - 00:17:25.810

have been like every other politician, I should have been vindictive and mean and wait for a chance to get even. But you know, cecil, um, one of the qualities that you have as a black as you, you, you for some reason you really don't blame a

00:17:25.810 - 00:17:42.340

black who does something like that because you know, that's really not him. That's the mentality that's been imposed upon him and I got a chance to go all the way the other way. One of them john miller who's the judge, a justice now uh, was nominated

00:17:42.340 - 00:18:03.410

to be a justice by jerry brown after having orchestrated leo McCarthy's victory over me this bar of san Francisco rejected him issued a negative report on miller. My long years of relationship with the SAN Francisco bar was then employed and in my law office in my

00:18:03.410 - 00:18:23.870

library, the san Francisco bar committee was asked to reconsider and after several hours of serious debate and discuss in every aspect of Justice Miller's career, the SAn Francisco bar turned around, I'm very proud of the role that I played in that and to this day, um,

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this is probably the first time that I have ever publicly told the story, but this was the man who orchestrated my defeat, but he was a brother cecil and I got a chance uh, to, to help him become what he wanted to become. I'm not sure

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that there will ever be an occasion when Justice Miller will ever acknowledge that maybe he would have done differently in 1970 for had he known me as he now knows me. But the greatest acknowledgement was that recently I had a fundraising event, injustices ordinarily don't participate

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in fundraising events, but I looked out there and my old buddy, my old buddy john miller was there Cecil, that was better than winning in 74 seeing the cat in the room and this time when I ran cecil, we still haven't arrived at the level where

00:19:10.960 - 00:19:30.980

blacks understand the necessity of being loyal to a black cause a black woman nominated my opponent for the speakership and there are six blacks in the house, Four blacks voted with me, two Blacks voted with my opponent. Maybe the next time a black runs for the

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speakership maybe by then we had we would have gone from one black and 74 on my behalf 24 Blacks in 1981. And maybe we'll be at six blacks by 1990. Next Willie Brown on the price he pays to live the public life. Willie, how do you

00:19:52.230 - 00:20:07.510

feel the press treats you? The press is uh, you know, I've always, as far as I'm concerned, been fairly reasonable even before being speaker. I got a lot of ink. You got a lot more as your speaker. But I suspect other than the leadership of the

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House, I must have been the most widely covered member of the California Legislature for years and years and years. And in the process, the press has made me uh, kind of a name that people recognize. Uh, I enjoy walking into the airport and people say that's

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Willie Brown, that's Willie Brown. That's what it says press did that the photographs, the words, the coverage, all of that has happened. Willie you really have to pay a high price for being speaker of the House, don't you? You have to make sacrifices um, to be

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a good public servant. I'm not sure I'm almost certain that people may make, shouldn't even burden themselves, so to speak or burden them their families with them. Uh, jerry Brown may be the ideal candidate for public office. Uh, he really doesn't impose his lifestyle on anyone

00:21:01.830 - 00:21:18.920

else who is closely related to our involved with him. And so no one else has to pay the price without enjoying all of the benefits of being a part of all of the benefits. It is a incredible price that families of persons who are in public

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life have to pay. What is Willie Brown going to do in the future? My near and distant future is the speakership. I would like to last as long as jess Sandra. If not longer. I think it will take me that long to match all 49 or

00:21:37.770 - 00:21:54.560

10 years. I think it will take me that long frankly to match the performance collectively of my four predecessors. Right? You're saying that you don't want to go to another office? No, I don't have any ambition beyond speakership. I intend to prepare myself for a full

00:21:54.560 - 00:22:11.190

life of politics and for a full public service career. I cannot envision any limits being placed on that career by virtue of anything because I don't intend to develop any handicaps. I only intend to develop assets. I intend to take advantage of every opportunity. And I

00:22:11.190 - 00:22:28.170

intend to I intend not to do anything that becomes a disadvantage. And so I intend to be speaker and leave break stones telephone number. So when I arrived there I can call him look on my yellow sheet and you will see breaks down at the restaurant.

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Mhm mm hmm.