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to, to, to amoeba urban who's just a car Tommy bobby to driving for me mama, good morning. I'm john von Rohr and welcome you to another program in this series entitled we believe portraying man's major religious faith and describing

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in particular several of the churches in the bay area to which many of us and our neighbors belong. This morning. Through the assistance of two guests whom we have with us, we shall be examining the beliefs of the vedanta society, one of whose churches in san

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Francisco known as the old temple is pictured here before us. But before we speak with our guests, let me say just a few words about the historic backgrounds of the vedanta movement. The vedanta religion finds its roots in the ancient Hinduism of the mountains and plains

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of ancient India at the foot of the Himalayas. One finds the place where the vedanta religion began. It had its origins and is based upon the ancient scriptures of Hinduism. Uh the Vedas as they were found in ancient India and thus goes back to a time

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well before 1500 BC. It is also based of course upon many more recent religious writings that have been prepared by men since that time. Modern movements in Vedanta look however to the mid 19th century and to the person of Rama Krishna as providing a very significant

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revitalization for the vedanta movement. Now Rama Krishna lived near Calcutta in northern India And while he was a priest in a temple there in the year 1864. He experienced a very significant spiritual realization, a sense of complete oneness with God. And this didn't happen only once

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for him, but it was repeated time and time again throughout the remainder of his life. Now his spiritual experience was so profound that many followers gathered around him and at the time of his death in 1800 and 86, these followers established a monastic movement known as

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the Ramakrishna order. Now it was one of the monks of the Rama Krishna order Who threw a very interesting set of circumstances, brought the Vedanta movement to America near the end of the 19th century. This man was swami Vivekananda Who in 1893 was invited to address

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the World Parliament of Religions, held in conjunction with the world's Columbian exposition in Chicago. Now, when swami Vivekananda addressed that meeting, he made a striking impression, so much so that many, many invitations to lecture throughout the United States came to him and for the next two

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or three years, swami Vivekananda lectured in America and in England explaining the basic beliefs of the vedanta movement. In the course of all of this, in the year 1894, he founded the Vedanta Society in New York and in 1900 he established the Vedanta Center in San

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Francisco. Now in the half century or more that has followed the vedanta movement of course has spread significantly in the United States and today there are 14 different vedanta centers, including five in the state of California at these centers, instruction in vedanta is given by swamis

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who have come to them for that purpose. Now this morning, the first of our guests is one of these swamis. Uh swami sri ananda of the vedanta society. Old temple uh in san Francisco, uh swami uh Shroud Ananda, we are delighted that you are with us

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and are sharing in this interpretation of the vedanta society. Now we have present here a a statue of swami Vivekananda who brought the vedanta movement to America. Tell me what is a swami? The word Saw me, the basket word meaning literally master. It is a term

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of reverence. two monks who have renounced at home for the realization of God and have a considerable extent achieved self mastery, which as we know, is an essential condition of intense spiritual life. And above the statue of swami Vivekananda, there is a symbol of the vedanta

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society. What is this swami? Well, this is a Sanskrit word pronounced home. In fact it is a combination of three letters. Are you and ma. It stands as a sacred symbol of God in his universal aspect. And how is this used? It is used in meditation

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and in worship by all sects of Hinduism. In fact there are various names of God for different sects but all acknowledge this symbol as a universal background of their worship and as a universal name for God. Now there are many sacred scriptures that are used by

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the vedanta society. I wonder Sammy, if you could indicate to us some of the scriptures that are being used in your group. Yes, santa as you know, is a part of the business and this book, the principal who punished this is one of the principal scriptures

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of the data. Then we have to, as you know, that was translated by various western scholars in different european languages and then the danta has an universal religion and philosophy acknowledges the truths of different religions. So in our services and in our lectures and classes, we

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extensively do use the scriptures of other religions. And here you see doctor, we have buddhism scriptures of buddhism, then we have the holy bible and the Koran and then we have uh the gospel of Saddam. A Krishna rama. Krishna was the latest teacher and ST in

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banana and his disciple, as you said, some bacon and some of his works are contained in this book. So you use scriptures from hindu backgrounds and also from other religions of the world. Well, that's very interesting. I wonder if we can talk a bit about some

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of the beliefs of the vedanta society for uh I'm sure that there are many significant things that vedanta believes and that it would be worthwhile for us to, to explore swami. Let me begin by just asking you a great big question if I may, it's probably

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the biggest question. Now tell me what does vedanta believe about God and about man and well, about the relationship between God and man? Well, surely it is a big question. According to bonanza, God is the supreme spirit and it is, he is both personal and impersonal

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as impersonal. He is the absolute beyond time space and position. His nature is infinite existence, consciousness and bliss and as the absolute impersonal god. He cannot be the object of our worship. But the claims that man Kann relies himself as spirit and come come into a

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sense of direct experience of this infinite. Then the second aspect of God is the personal god, the god of the major religions. The God who is responsible for creation, sustain insights and the solution of this universe. The God whom we worship the God to whom we

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can pray and the God who responds to our prayers and grants to ask the good things of life including salvation, freedom from the bondage of relative existence. But now how can God be both impersonal and personal. That is from two standpoints from, from the standpoint of

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the highest truth, the doctor says, God is beyond the range of our mind and words and he is the essence of existence, from the standpoint of creation. From the standpoint of worship God the same absolute, so to say the sense to the plane off the God

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of our worship Now, what about what about men? What about us, who are we swami man too. According to bonanza is essential nature is spirit. He is of just as the bible would say, he's an image of God a spark of the divine. But due to

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ignorance, he has been somehow tired with body and mind and all the limitations. But the hunter claims that it is possible for man to realize himself as a spirit as spark of the divine. And this realization is possible through both ways. Through the worship and meditation

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and contemplation of the personal god are by reflective analysis of his own nature and realizing himself as the infinite spirit of brahman, the supreme spirit. Does this mean that God and man are the same? The answer to this question is yes and no, at the same

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time, from the standpoint of personal god. Surely man is different from god. Man is the worshiper of God. But when a man goes to the discovery of his true nature, he finds that ultimately there is no difference between God and man. Both are the same absolute

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spirit. Now, man discovers his true nature and discovers god essentially, that is his true nature. Is that correct? That's right now, there are some words in the Don to that that I have heard um the word karma for example and reincarnation, Where does that fit into

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this whole picture? What do the Downton's believe about? Uh, well, life after life after death, let us say karma literally means action. Whatever they do is karma. Then karma has another meaning, the result of an action. Now, the idea is whatever they do, good or bad

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produces an effect, the resultant and this result, and he stood up in our mind as a sort of psychic potential false, which produces afterwards either happiness or misery. And so the happiness or misery that we experience now is the result of our past actions. And whatever

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actions we are doing good or bad will produce these results and will lead us to our future. Happiness of misery. Now, this means that we have lived before this earthly existence. That is the implication man is responsible for his own destiny. Man has an infinite past

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and has a future. So, man should take care of his actions. He can mold his future. That is the idea of karma. And so we will live again sometime in the future of the implication a man is the traveler, the human spirit, the human soul is

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the traveler towards the great journey and the end of the journey is God. Until man discovers himself. Till man realizes God, he has to undergo different experiences different back. What happens at the very end At the very end, if he's worshiper of the personal god, he

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will be freed from the bondage of relative existence and he will be eternally in the presence of God. The idea is more or less similar to that we find in the last book of the bible in the book of revelation, eternal presence of God. But those

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who would go to the other impersonal aspect of God. The idea is they will be margin that absolute. They realize themselves as the absolute now this self knowledge and knowledge of God, can anyone have it in this life? Surely that is the claim of man is

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potentially divine and any man, he has the possibility of realizing himself for realizing God provided. Of course he follows the path. Now I sometimes somehow have the idea that yoga is important here in this self realization and knowledge of God. Is that right? Yes. What is

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yoga? Yoga literally means union. It is a sort of city of spiritual discipline. Of course. Unfortunately, the world of yoga in the west has very queer ideas about it. But yoga essentially is a spiritual discipline. This discipline can broadly be divided into four classes. Bhakti yoga

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devotion, the part of devotion, those who are of an emotional nature, they would follow the path of devotion. The yoga, Bhakti yoga and those who are rather a psychical type, They would rather choose what is called raja yoga or the yoga of concentration. Then there is

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the 3rd yoga, the part of unselfish action that is also called Yoga. And lastly, those who are aware philosophy bent of mind, they would follow self analysis to reflective reasoning that is called So through these various types of contemplation then, which are yoga and I understand

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that yoga here is not the gymnastics of a person standing on his head is a different kind of identified with all sorts of things. Yes, you are essentially a spiritual discipline. Now let me let me ask you another question. I noticed in your sacred scriptures that

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you have the christian bible and the Koran from Islam. What is the Dantas view toward the other religions of the world? But Anton tries to discover the fundamental principles of a particular religion and so began to seize in all religions the effort to realize the same

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fundamental truth of course in creeks in theologies, rituals, there are differences but you haven't done these, these differences do not matter the dancing things and claims that all religions are the different roads to the same truth. You know I read a statement a while ago made

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by Benjamin franklin. He said churches are like clock. No two of them are the same but they all approximate the true time. Would this be something similar to? What is a very nice idea? A grand idea. I should say that the approximate approach. Now, let me

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ask you a question swami about the services of the vedanta society. What do you do in your services? Usually the services here are modified to the temperament of you know of the Western people. And so usually our services should be in the form of some park

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or lectured by the swami. It is, it begins with a chant on some religious music. And then this for me takes up a religious subject and give some exposition and then the service closest with some religious music. But I should like to say the dance expresses

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personal religion. Spiritual realization is matter of intense practice on the part of the student. So everybody on team is expected to practice contemplation and yoga at his heart home. Now you mentioned that there is a chanting at the beginning and the end of the service and

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I believe you chanted for us at the opening of this program. I wonder, I wonder if you would show us a chant in the vedanta service. That very much if you would do that swami. Mhm. Um Eva induced

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amoeba, tammy bobby mama. Diva, Diva thou art to me. Oh Lord! The affectionate mother, constantly looking to my well being thou art to me. The compassionate father whose care and council always guide and sustain me, thou art the faithful friend ever standing by me in trials

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and temptations and the loving companion to share my joys and sufferings thou art my wisdom, my wealth. Neither my all in all. O Lord Supreme. Thank you very much swami. Now to assist us in the interpretation of vedanta. We also have present this morning dr nancy

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tilden, Professor of philosophy and religion at san Francisco State College dr tilden has studied the religions of the world and has an interest in vedanta along with other religions of the world. You are a westerner, Doctor tilden, tell us what you think might be some of

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the values for the Western world in vedanta. It's a tough one. You know, there's so many things that you could say. Uh, I suppose that if I were to reflect upon it, I'd say probably two major things come to mind. One of them is the emphasis

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that vedanta places upon the truth of all religions. Now, if you look over the history of Western religious thought, you can't help but notice that uh, it's been traditionally at least very exclusive minded recently. Of course the emphasis has changed. Uh, thank God, but you have

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to admit that such words as pagan, infidel, idolaters, etcetera, which are more gentile. If you're speaking of the Judaic tradition, indicate indicate a sense of exclusiveness. Now, of course, we're in a situation where we are in a one world, as they say, you can't do anything

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about it. We have got to get along with people of different faith and particularly if people say, well, we'll get along with them culturally or socially, but we nonetheless don't feel very well toward their religion. You can't do that. People aren't divided into culture on one

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hand and religion on the other and the indians have for a very long time had the attitude that you can believe all other religions are true without affecting your own to speak in such terms as this Doesn't this mean that one reduces religion to well, what's

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commonly called the lowest common denominator. So you haven't got any religion at all. I'm sure you were going to ask that. Of course not because you can perfectly well, except the fact that there are many roads to one place without trying to walk on all of

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them at the same time. That is the video antic attitude is give your whole attention to this path you are following, but do not therefore hold that somebody else can't do the same and get there. So you so you think then that the emphasis upon universality

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and the truth that is found in all religions is really a great contribution that vedanta can make to the Western world. Are there any other contributions that you would think the second one, which I mentioned before is one that it's hard to explain. However, I will

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do my best. Their emphasis upon the uh, the fact that the heart of religion is realization, as they would say, actually experiencing God validating religious statements by your own experience rather than as has been again, I would say, this was traditionally so in all of Western

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religion because up until the last few 100 years, there were many people who held at the heart of religion was experienced. But within the last few 100 years, the emphasis become more and more upon faith or upon sacraments at the heart of religion rather than upon

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experience. Now, the result of this has been that at the same time we've been developing science. We continue to hold that religion is faith and that science is experimental, critical questioning and self confident. Are you going to say that vedanta is a scientific religion? Yes. If

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you will allow me a definition of science, now tell me what your definition of sciences? Well, first, I'll say what it isn't in order to work this. Um uh very often science is identified with whatever you may experience through your senses. And the inference is you

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can make on the basis of sense experience. Now I do not want to confine science to that. If you use science in the old greek sense of knowledge, then I would say any kind of experience which it is possible for a human being to have is

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an experience on the basis of which it is possible to have knowledge. So out of out of experience, you can have the confirmation and validation of religion. Now, do you think that vedanta is making a large appeal to people in the Western world? Well about that.

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I would say there is no doubt I teach classes in comparative religion course. Their their interests. Yeah, I mean of course you have a wide range of interests are people who are just curious. Uh But that isn't the kind of thing you have most often there's

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more than that there is a sense. For one thing I would say. One of the responses that you get most often is the sense that ah those people who take religion to India are sort of bringing coals to Newcastle. That is. They learn it very quickly.

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They get out of their provincial Itty with regard to Western religion. But the two things that appeal to them, most of the very things I've mentioned that is first of all, the sense that uh you can have an attitude of respect and not just tolerance for

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other religions, which is a pedantic point of view. And the second of them the interest in actually having experienced invalidating a religious statement from your own experience. Now that is uh something that appeals very much to people who are tired of feeling split between sunday and

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science. As you know this you would think provides a real sense of unity then does it for the Westerner as he approaches the totality of his life, possibility. If you take the idea that religion is something that is experiential, then it seems to me that both

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you can take the attitude that religion is a kind of science, not that there's any competition. They're different sciences, not science and faith. Now, these are very, very interesting observations that you've made dr Children and we're deeply appreciative to you for them. Thank you so very

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much for sharing these moments with us. Ladies and gentlemen, we have been presenting another in the series entitled We Believe This has been a program interpreting the beliefs of the vedanta society next week, we shall I have an opportunity to speak with representatives from the protestant

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Episcopal Church, and we hope that you will be able to join with us on that occasion. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, mm hmm.